I decided to move some discussion from this post up to the top level here. Specifically, Watoosh wrote: "Well, if violence is defined as initiation of force (which, of course, presupposes certain property rights), then I think Rockwell is correct..." Well, if we define cats as elephants, then many people keep elephants in their house. More seriously, firstly, violence is not usually defined that way. It's defined as, you know, violence, so that, say, someone may respond violently or non-violently to someone who aggresses against them. Otherwise, it would make no sense to say, for instance, "He punched me, but I did not stoop to violence in response." And, secondly, the libertarian usage of "initiation of force" is very offbeat. If I wander onto someone's meadow, most people would not say I had "initiated force" -- I mean, sure, I used "force" against the earth to push off walking, but that's not force directed against...
And we are probably better for that violence and deceit. This need not be an argument against property rights. What it's an argument against is natural rights. Property rights are great! They're just messier and more ad hoc than many would like to admit.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for some kinds of organic, ad hoc government, as contrasted with the modern state.
ReplyDeleteI dunno if that makes me some sort of anarchist, or just confused.
I quite agree.
ReplyDeleteHave you gotten either of my last two emails? I'd ask you by email, but if you're not getting them, that would obviously be pointless.
Daniel: what you're saying seems just plain wrong, even if you approach from a very utilitarian point of view. First of all, not only did the wrongful acquisition start from misery, it led to a perversely unequal division of wealth - if anything, I'd expect a progressive to be against this! (assuming you self-identify as a progressive or anything like it, that is.) Second, even if Lockean property rules aren't quite as neat in real life as on paper, surely there are ways of dealing with property that are preferable to violence and deceit?
ReplyDeleteAlso, according to what standard are we better off than in your counterfactual?
Watoosh, I took him to be saying just, "We're better off having private property than not."
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