I See Nazis! They Are Everywhere!
Kevin Carson suffers a complete mental breakdown over OWS being evicted from Zuccotti Park. Should the protesters have been evicted? I don't know. Did the police sometimes use too much force? Most likely. But is evicting the protesters a "Gestapo" tactic? Only in the most fevered of imaginations. These people were continuously breaking the law for two months. The place was filthy, the protesters were disruptive to neighbors and small businesses in the area, cabs could not pass through lower Manhattan, and so on. After two months of law-breaking, the police came and told them to leave. Only if they refused were they arrested.
That is one really restrained "Gestapo"!
That is one really restrained "Gestapo"!
Yeah, the PLA didn't wait two whole months to clear Tiananmen. They only went about 50 days. NYPD is sooooooooooooo restrained by comparison.
ReplyDeleteGene, would you say Carson saying them to the Gestapo is more or less exaggerated than you saying he had "a complete mental breakdown"?
ReplyDeleteIn the past, when a district was too congested, disease-ridden, and unhygienic in New York, the authorities **tore down the entire place** and **forced all the poor Polish and Hungarian migrants to live in cleaner higher rent apartments**.
ReplyDeleteNow, whether one approves or disapproves of such measures, it certainly did not get New York authorities get compared to dictators in the past. It was seen as heavy-handed and perhaps unfair handling of what was otherwise routine business of state authorities.
By comparison, asking a group of people to vacate a disease-ridden, rape-crime-pervaded tent area on a public park is a far more modest action. If those were private authorities managing their own premises, would they have behaved any differently? Or would they be slammed for failing to uphold hygiene standards?
Carson: "NYPD Gestapo Shutting Down OWS. Shut Down NYPD! ... Let's shut down the NYC government"
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think I'm done with radical libertarianism.
'Gene, would you say Carson saying them to the Gestapo is more or less exaggerated than you saying he had "a complete mental breakdown"?'
ReplyDeleteWell, I meant *on this topic*. And thus, I do not think there is *any* exaggeration in what I said? Telling people that a city park cannot be used as a campground is a "Nazi" tactic?! And the proper response is *shutting down the NYC government*?!
Bob, I know you think the government's emergency services should be privatized... but they are not so at present. People will *die* if Carson succeeds. (Of course he won't, and he knows it: this is radical posturing, not real radicalism.)
Carson may be fully sane in every other way. On this topic he has lost it.
"Yeah, the PLA didn't wait two whole months to clear Tiananmen. They only went about 50 days. NYPD is sooooooooooooo restrained by comparison."
ReplyDeleteWhat a massive fail as a comeback, Tom!
1) Carson was calling this move "Gestapo," which was what I was saying was nuts. Whatever the comparison would be at the height of Maoism, by 1989 the PRC was a *far* better regime than the Nazi German one. (For instance, they were not trying to wipe out an entire race of people, or conquer a whole continent.) So right away, you've backed way down from Carson's position.
2) But even your new post-retreat position cannot be held. Let us count a couple of important ways:
a) The PRC fired on the crowd to clear the square, killing at least hundreds. The NYPD death toll in clearing the park: 0.
b) The PRC was trying to eliminate *the right to protest government policy*. The NYPD is trying to eliminate illegally turning a city park into a campground.
So the NYPD waited 60 days to do something it had every right to do on day one, and that almost everyone else who uses the neighborhood *hoped* they would do on day one. Protests in the park *will still be allowed*. You just can't camp out there anymore.
Soooooooooooooooooo, your comparison is a complete failure, even if you type 50 more 'o's on the word so!
Right on, Prateek.
ReplyDelete"The NYPD is illegally trying to eliminate turning a city park into a campground."
ReplyDeleteThere, fixed that for ya.
"New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said on September 28, 2011, that the NYPD could not bar protesters from Zuccotti Park since it is a public plaza that is required to stay open 24 hours a day."
Tom, you, too, are suffering diminished mental capacities due to your emotional investment in the "cops are thugs" trope. Do you really think that just because something is open 24 hours a day, that means it is OK to camp there for months? Try that at your local Higgeldy Piggeldy, or whatever the place you have down south is called.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, here is the actual regulation, which is very easy to find online:
"Can I camp in the parks?
No, overnight camping is prohibited in all parks. The Urban Park Rangers host supervised camping events throughout the summer. Please visit the Urban Park Rangers Events Calendar or subscribe to our Email Newsletters to find out when the next camping event will take place." -- NYC Parks FAQ
So, OWS has been breaking a completely reasonable law since the first day of the "movement." The NYPD has, indeed, exercised great restraint.
As they did today, when protesters threw acid in their faces, threw sharp objects at them, tried to disassemble legally erected barriers, tried to violently prevent ordinary people from getting to work, etc.