I decided to move some discussion from this post up to the top level here. Specifically, Watoosh wrote: "Well, if violence is defined as initiation of force (which, of course, presupposes certain property rights), then I think Rockwell is correct..." Well, if we define cats as elephants, then many people keep elephants in their house. More seriously, firstly, violence is not usually defined that way. It's defined as, you know, violence, so that, say, someone may respond violently or non-violently to someone who aggresses against them. Otherwise, it would make no sense to say, for instance, "He punched me, but I did not stoop to violence in response." And, secondly, the libertarian usage of "initiation of force" is very offbeat. If I wander onto someone's meadow, most people would not say I had "initiated force" -- I mean, sure, I used "force" against the earth to push off walking, but that's not force directed against...
Who's Tom?
ReplyDeleteOk. The First Stick Guy quotes some big internet sources, and the Second Stick Guy quotes some less prestigious ones. Aside from First Stick Guy talking about some journals, I don't see how this argument can go somewhere.
ReplyDeleteIsn't there some larger question about the presentation of information present here? I mean, if we lived in the Soviet Union, it would seem like you'd have all the universities and professions stacked up against you on issues like higher productivity of capitalism, etc. If everything that claims to be 'professional' and 'respectable' is saying you are wrong and crazy, under what circumstances should you believe them?
Also, I'm not quite getting this. Did you have some argument with someone about Biblical interpretation, and they cite something you didn't find convincing?
Interesting take.
ReplyDeleteObviously my take is a bit different. The most important difference, I think, is that you appear to think that we're having an argument that one side or the other needs to "win."
Tom, I'm just joshing you.
DeleteWorks for me, Gene!
DeleteI do want to elaborate on my point of view, though.
I don't really discuss religion, or my beliefs relating to it, very often or in very many places. This is one of those places, because I think you do take religious belief seriously rather than just considering it another football to kick around.
In discussing religious belief -- as opposed to, say, politics -- my goal is not really to persuade anyone of anything. It's more a matter of being interested in saying "here's what I believe and why" versus what someone else may believe and why, and seeing if anything interesting comes of it.
I'm not disinterested in persuasion because I don't think it's important. I'm disinterested in persuasion because almost any religious belief by definition includes a strong element of faith.
Faith is not really subject to empirical proof or disproof, and (assuming certain things even MAY be true) it is foolhardy, and perhaps downright evil, to intentionally attempt to prang someone else's.
Who is this Tom? Is he part of the conspiracy?
DeleteTom is Knappster.
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